Ethernet over power

[Raoul Watson]

Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes? I am
trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have different
quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101 since the other brands
seems to have much lower throughput (85 mbps, 14 mbps). Any advice is
greatly appreciated.. thx

[Han]

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes? I
am trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have
different quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101 since
the other brands seems to have much lower throughput (85 mbps, 14
mbps). Any advice is greatly appreciated.. thx

I looked at it a bit when our ActionTec wireless seemed really flaky. Part
of that was the channel we were using compared to our neighbors, part
location-related. It seemed very expensive to me. I ended up running an
ethernet wire from upstairs to the living room to another router behind the
couch (into a LAN port), and ethernet wires from there to our laptops. Was
much less costly, and faster then ethernet over power.

Let us know how you end up!

Groetjes

[n***@sysadmininc.com]

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes? I am
trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have different
quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101 since the other brands
seems to have much lower throughput (85 mbps, 14 mbps). Any advice is
greatly appreciated.. thx

I've used Netgrear equipment to do this for a client. They've been happy
with it. At least I've not heard any complaints :)

Regards
Nigel

[Twayne]

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes? I
am trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have
different quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101 since
the other brands seems to have much lower throughput (85 mbps, 14
mbps). Any advice is greatly appreciated.. thx

No personal experience, only hearsay. However, I have had experience
with such things as intercoms, and if two nodes happen to be on opposite
sides of your breaker box, the signal will have to go through your pole
transformer to get to the far node ... and it's most likely not going to
make it.
In other words, the two 120 lines into your home comes off each side
of the transformer out on the pole and each one feeds half your
breakerbox.. Having a node on each side borks the signal as a general
rule.

IMO wireless is better. And wireless routers are cheap nowadays.

[Martin Riddle]

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes? I
am trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have
different quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101 since
the other brands seems to have much lower throughput (85 mbps, 14
mbps). Any advice is greatly appreciated.. thx

No personal experience, only hearsay. However, I have had experience with such things as intercoms, and if two nodes
happen to be on opposite sides of your breaker box, the signal will have to go through your pole transformer to get to the
far node ... and it's most likely not going to make it.
In other words, the two 120 lines into your home comes off each side of the transformer out on the pole and each one
feeds half your breakerbox.. Having a node on each side borks the signal as a general rule.
IMO wireless is better. And wireless routers are cheap nowadays.
--

I agree, I have setup a wireless bridge from my westell 327 to a WRTG54 router.
I'm using www.dd-wrt.com/ and this works fantastic. I would recomend looking into
setting up something similar.

Cheers

[Han]

Post by Martin Riddle

Post by Twayne

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes?
I am trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have
different quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101
since the other brands seems to have much lower throughput (85 mbps,
14 mbps). Any advice is greatly appreciated.. thx

No personal experience, only hearsay. However, I have had experience
with such things as intercoms, and if two nodes happen to be on
opposite sides of your breaker box, the signal will have to go
through your pole transformer to get to the far node ... and it's
most likely not going to make it.
In other words, the two 120 lines into your home comes off each
side of the transformer out on the pole and each one
feeds half your breakerbox.. Having a node on each side borks the
signal as a general rule.
IMO wireless is better. And wireless routers are cheap nowadays.
--

I agree, I have setup a wireless bridge from my westell 327 to a
WRTG54 router. I'm using www.dd-wrt.com/ and this works fantastic. I
would recomend looking into setting up something similar.
Cheers

I apologize. Must be having a senior moment. What is dd-wrt? I can't
get it from the website without digging deeper, and am turned off by
German, as well as Buffalo Technologies (bad experience with their LAN
storage system).

But I am intrigued enough to want to learn more about alternatives to or
combinations of wired and wireless LANs.

[Stephen Harris]

Post by Han
I apologize. Must be having a senior moment. What is dd-wrt? I can't

Alternate firmware for the Linksys WRT54G (Linux versions) series of
routers and similar hardware from other vendors (eg Buffalo).

The original WRT54G (now the WRT54GL) was Linux based and under the GPL
Linksys were forced to release the source code, so people learned how to
write different firmware for it, that could do more than the original
vender software. "Sveasoft" was one of the early big firmware vendors,
but they went insane with their licensing and pissed a lot of people
off. DD-WRT was a different, more modular, solution.

Interestingly, it seems that Buffalo are now proving the DD-WRT software
as their official supported firmware!

[Han]

Post by Stephen Harris

Post by Han
I apologize. Must be having a senior moment. What is dd-wrt? I can't

Alternate firmware for the Linksys WRT54G (Linux versions) series of
routers and similar hardware from other vendors (eg Buffalo).
The original WRT54G (now the WRT54GL) was Linux based and under the
GPL Linksys were forced to release the source code, so people learned
how to write different firmware for it, that could do more than the
original vender software. "Sveasoft" was one of the early big
firmware vendors, but they went insane with their licensing and pissed
a lot of people off. DD-WRT was a different, more modular, solution.
Interestingly, it seems that Buffalo are now proving the DD-WRT
software as their official supported firmware!

Thanks Stephen.
I am having enough trouble with my Acer ASpire cheap laptop, not to try
DD-WRT yet. Vista SP1 doesn't want to install, and I can't even get the
old hard drive to take a restore, so I will muddle along without SP1 for
a while. Btw, I like your opinions on the FLS board, where I have been
lurking. The 16 are NOT a real majority, and we need people like you!
(opahan on yahoo's mail)

[Raoul Watson]

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes? I
am trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have
different quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101 since
the other brands seems to have much lower throughput (85 mbps, 14
mbps). Any advice is greatly appreciated.. thx

No personal experience, only hearsay. However, I have had experience with
such things as intercoms, and if two nodes happen to be on opposite sides
of your breaker box, the signal will have to go through your pole
transformer to get to the far node ... and it's most likely not going to
make it.
In other words, the two 120 lines into your home comes off each side of
the transformer out on the pole and each one feeds half your breakerbox..
Having a node on each side borks the signal as a general rule.
IMO wireless is better. And wireless routers are cheap nowadays.
--
Regards,
Twayne

Makes perfect sense as far as on the same breaker line.
Do you have a trick on how to test this?

Agree with the wireless.. i use the Belkin N1 networj
and i get up to 300mbps over the air..
but unfotunately I need a 'wired' solution for something else..

[Han]

Post by Raoul Watson
Makes perfect sense as far as on the same breaker line.
Do you have a trick on how to test this?

Usually, I think, you can turn one half of the main breaker off.
Otherwise, just turn all the circuitbreakers on either the right or left
off, and test all outlets. Not with your tongue!

[Raoul Watson]

Post by Han

Post by Raoul Watson
Makes perfect sense as far as on the same breaker line.
Do you have a trick on how to test this?

Usually, I think, you can turn one half of the main breaker off.
Otherwise, just turn all the circuitbreakers on either the right or left
off, and test all outlets. Not with your tongue!

L O L !!

[Froggie the Gremlin]

Post by Han

Post by Raoul Watson
Makes perfect sense as far as on the same breaker line.
Do you have a trick on how to test this?

Usually, I think, you can turn one half of the main breaker off.
Otherwise, just turn all the circuitbreakers on either the right or left
off, and test all outlets. Not with your tongue!

:-)

HomePlug works just fine even across phases, as long as the phases come
off the same transformer... it's when/if they come off different
transformers that the problem occurs ( a pretty rare configuration).

---<ribbit>

[Twayne]

Post by Raoul Watson

Post by Twayne

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes?
I am trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have
different quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101
since the other brands seems to have much lower throughput (85
mbps, 14 mbps). Any advice is greatly appreciated.. thx

No personal experience, only hearsay. However, I have had
experience with such things as intercoms, and if two nodes happen to
be on opposite sides of your breaker box, the signal will have to go
through your pole transformer to get to the far node ... and it's
most likely not going to make it.
In other words, the two 120 lines into your home comes off each
side of the transformer out on the pole and each one feeds half your
breakerbox.. Having a node on each side borks the signal as a
general rule. IMO wireless is better. And wireless routers are cheap
nowadays.
--
Regards,
Twayne

Makes perfect sense as far as on the same breaker line.
Do you have a trick on how to test this?
Agree with the wireless.. i use the Belkin N1 networj
and i get up to 300mbps over the air..
but unfotunately I need a 'wired' solution for something else..

Hans' idea will work if your Mains breakers aren't linked together.
However, that method should be discouraged as it is possible to damage
these breakers easily should one of them happen to be under a heavy load
at the time.

Assuming you're in North America, there are two vertical columns of
breakers in your box. The one on the left is one phase, the other is
the other phase. So you want to pick from breakers all on the same side
of the panel box.

There's an article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_board#Breaker_arrangement

and if you scroll down to "Inside a North American panel" there's a pic
on the right where the cover is removed and you can even see the bus
bars that run down to the breakers between the main breaker and the
separate breakers.
NTOE: Do NOT open you breaker box; it's the cover that keeps all the
breakers in proper position and if one moves a bit (or worse a lot),
you'll have a lot of troule getting it back on unless you're experienced
in this sort of thing. It could be pretty dangerous, even lethal! I
just mention the pic for the reference. Only a licensed electrician can
legally remove the panel.

Twayne

[Gordon]

Post by Twayne
Assuming you're in North America, there are two vertical columns of
breakers in your box. The one on the left is one phase, the other is
the other phase. So you want to pick from breakers all on the same side
of the panel box.

Not necessarily.
Many breaker panals are opting for the configuration where every
other breaker on each side is on the same phase. So the odd numbered
breakers are on one phase and the even ones are on the other.
It's much easier to drop a double wide 220volt breaker into one of
these panals.

You can check the phasing of two outlets with a long extension cord and a
voltmeter. Plug the extension cord into one outlet and run it up near
the other socket. Use a voltmeter to probe the hot side of the cord and
the outlet (the short slot). If you read zero, the circuits are on the
same phase, or you are probing the neutrals, 220; oposite phases, 110;
One of the outlets is improperly wired. Or if you can't remember which
slots to probe, just probe all four combinations. If you read 220; they
are on oposite phases. If the higest voltage you read is 110; they are on
the same phase.

[Twayne]

Post by Gordon

Post by Twayne
Assuming you're in North America, there are two vertical columns of
breakers in your box. The one on the left is one phase, the other is
the other phase. So you want to pick from breakers all on the same
side of the panel box.

Not necessarily.
Many breaker panals are opting for the configuration where every
other breaker on each side is on the same phase. So the odd numbered
breakers are on one phase and the even ones are on the other.
It's much easier to drop a double wide 220volt breaker into one of
these panals.
You can check the phasing of two outlets with a long extension cord
and a voltmeter. Plug the extension cord into one outlet and run it
up near the other socket. Use a voltmeter to probe the hot side of
the cord and the outlet (the short slot). If you read zero, the
circuits are on the same phase, or you are probing the neutrals,
220; oposite phases, 110; One of the outlets is improperly wired. Or
if you can't remember which slots to probe, just probe all four
combinations. If you read 220; they are on oposite phases. If the
higest voltage you read is 110; they are on the same phase.

Your'e right, my "most" disappeared somehow from my post. That said
however, the extension cord bit is a good way to check it; good catch!

[Raoul Watson]

Post by Gordon

Post by Twayne
Assuming you're in North America, there are two vertical columns of
breakers in your box. The one on the left is one phase, the other is
the other phase. So you want to pick from breakers all on the same side
of the panel box.

Not necessarily.
Many breaker panals are opting for the configuration where every
other breaker on each side is on the same phase. So the odd numbered
breakers are on one phase and the even ones are on the other.
It's much easier to drop a double wide 220volt breaker into one of
these panals.
You can check the phasing of two outlets with a long extension cord and a
voltmeter. Plug the extension cord into one outlet and run it up near
the other socket. Use a voltmeter to probe the hot side of the cord and
the outlet (the short slot). If you read zero, the circuits are on the
same phase, or you are probing the neutrals, 220; oposite phases, 110;
One of the outlets is improperly wired. Or if you can't remember which
slots to probe, just probe all four combinations. If you read 220; they
are on oposite phases. If the higest voltage you read is 110; they are on
the same phase.

Extremely neat trick..Thanks..
... hey if I find 220Volts, I can just build an outlet there (since I do
need one :-)

[Han]

Post by Twayne

Post by Raoul Watson

Post by Twayne

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes?
I am trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have
different quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101
since the other brands seems to have much lower throughput (85
mbps, 14 mbps). Any advice is greatly appreciated.. thx

No personal experience, only hearsay. However, I have had
experience with such things as intercoms, and if two nodes happen to
be on opposite sides of your breaker box, the signal will have to go
through your pole transformer to get to the far node ... and it's
most likely not going to make it.
In other words, the two 120 lines into your home comes off each
side of the transformer out on the pole and each one feeds half your
breakerbox.. Having a node on each side borks the signal as a
general rule. IMO wireless is better. And wireless routers are
cheap nowadays.
--
Regards,
Twayne

Makes perfect sense as far as on the same breaker line.
Do you have a trick on how to test this?
Agree with the wireless.. i use the Belkin N1 networj
and i get up to 300mbps over the air..
but unfotunately I need a 'wired' solution for something else..

Hans' idea will work if your Mains breakers aren't linked together.
However, that method should be discouraged as it is possible to damage
these breakers easily should one of them happen to be under a heavy
load at the time.
Assuming you're in North America, there are two vertical columns of
breakers in your box. The one on the left is one phase, the other is
the other phase. So you want to pick from breakers all on the same
side of the panel box.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_board#Breaker_arrangement
and if you scroll down to "Inside a North American panel" there's a
pic on the right where the cover is removed and you can even see the
bus bars that run down to the breakers between the main breaker and
the separate breakers.
NTOE: Do NOT open you breaker box; it's the cover that keeps all the
breakers in proper position and if one moves a bit (or worse a lot),
you'll have a lot of troule getting it back on unless you're
experienced in this sort of thing. It could be pretty dangerous, even
lethal! I just mention the pic for the reference. Only a licensed
electrician can legally remove the panel.
Twayne

I'd have to open the breaker panel (again) to check, but I believe that
in mine the two phases are on the right and left, not alternating top to
bottom (I hope I read your post right, Twayne).

I have added circuits to my shop all by myself. But only when I was
wide awake and after really thinking it through. As a kid, I had a
couple of 220V shocks and I really don't care to repeat it too often -
not even with only half the volts, since it's the amps that drive the
640V subway train <grin>.

But I agree, if you have no idea what you are doing, playing with
electrical current is inadvisable. I also have a relative who's handy,
and a nice electrician for the real jobs.

[Bilbo]

Post by Han

Post by Twayne

Post by Raoul Watson

Post by Twayne

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes?
I am trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have
different quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101
since the other brands seems to have much lower throughput (85
mbps, 14 mbps). Any advice is greatly appreciated.. thx

No personal experience, only hearsay. However, I have had
experience with such things as intercoms, and if two nodes happen to
be on opposite sides of your breaker box, the signal will have to go
through your pole transformer to get to the far node ... and it's
most likely not going to make it.
In other words, the two 120 lines into your home comes off each
side of the transformer out on the pole and each one feeds half your
breakerbox.. Having a node on each side borks the signal as a
general rule. IMO wireless is better. And wireless routers are
cheap nowadays.
--
Regards,
Twayne

Makes perfect sense as far as on the same breaker line.
Do you have a trick on how to test this?
Agree with the wireless.. i use the Belkin N1 networj
and i get up to 300mbps over the air..
but unfotunately I need a 'wired' solution for something else..

Hans' idea will work if your Mains breakers aren't linked together.
However, that method should be discouraged as it is possible to damage
these breakers easily should one of them happen to be under a heavy
load at the time.
Assuming you're in North America, there are two vertical columns of
breakers in your box. The one on the left is one phase, the other is
the other phase. So you want to pick from breakers all on the same
side of the panel box.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_board#Breaker_arrangement
and if you scroll down to "Inside a North American panel" there's a
pic on the right where the cover is removed and you can even see the
bus bars that run down to the breakers between the main breaker and
the separate breakers.
NTOE: Do NOT open you breaker box; it's the cover that keeps all the
breakers in proper position and if one moves a bit (or worse a lot),
you'll have a lot of troule getting it back on unless you're
experienced in this sort of thing. It could be pretty dangerous, even
lethal! I just mention the pic for the reference. Only a licensed
electrician can legally remove the panel.
Twayne

I'd have to open the breaker panel (again) to check, but I believe that
in mine the two phases are on the right and left, not alternating top to
bottom (I hope I read your post right, Twayne).
I have added circuits to my shop all by myself. But only when I was
wide awake and after really thinking it through. As a kid, I had a
couple of 220V shocks and I really don't care to repeat it too often -
not even with only half the volts, since it's the amps that drive the
640V subway train <grin>.
But I agree, if you have no idea what you are doing, playing with
electrical current is inadvisable. I also have a relative who's handy,
and a nice electrician for the real jobs.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

There is one other configuration you might find in a breaker box. We have an
old Zensco box in our garage that has two bus bars, one on each side, but
only one column of breakers. The breaker has a clip on the back that can be
reversed to connect with either of the busses so you can set which phase it
is on. This also means you have to be careful to be sure the load is
distributed across both sides.
BB

[Froggie the Gremlin]

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:55:36 GMT, "Raoul Watson"

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes? I am
trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have different
quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101 since the other brands
seems to have much lower throughput (85 mbps, 14 mbps). Any advice is
greatly appreciated.. thx

Raoul, I just finished a "homeplug" network for my son-in-law a
few months back and all works very well. It's of the 85mbs variety so
with 100mbs router ports and machine ports, there's no noticable
difference in machine throughput, and of course your INTERNET connection
is nowhere near that speed.

Wireless in their house would not work well between floors (foil lined
insulation in the floors) so this was a good solution.

You must be sure all your power phases are from the same side of the
transformer or communication between phases may be problematic. Buy a
pair you can return if they don't work and try it.

---<ribbit>

[Raoul Watson]

Post by Froggie the Gremlin
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:55:36 GMT, "Raoul Watson"

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes? I am
trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have different
quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101 since the other brands
seems to have much lower throughput (85 mbps, 14 mbps). Any advice is
greatly appreciated.. thx

Raoul, I just finished a "homeplug" network for my son-in-law a
few months back and all works very well. It's of the 85mbs variety so
with 100mbs router ports and machine ports, there's no noticable
difference in machine throughput, and of course your INTERNET connection
is nowhere near that speed.
Wireless in their house would not work well between floors (foil lined
insulation in the floors) so this was a good solution.
You must be sure all your power phases are from the same side of the
transformer or communication between phases may be problematic. Buy a
pair you can return if they don't work and try it.
---<ribbit>

T H A N K S !!!

I heard good things about "homeplug".. but wanted to try a higher speed
alternative..

[Elmo]

Post by Raoul Watson
Does anyone here use ethernet over power technology in their homes? I am
trying to figure out which brand to get. They all seem to have different
quircks. Right now I am contemplating Netgear HDXB101 since the other brands
seems to have much lower throughput (85 mbps, 14 mbps). Any advice is
greatly appreciated.. thx

I do not use it now. But about 6 years ago, I participated in a pilot
program which used power line networking. But I don't think it had
the TCP/IP packets running over the power lines. One of the ports
on the Linksys router ran to a port on the Coactive brand gateway
and the gateway plugged into the AC outlet. There was a power
metering device that measured the power going into the breaker
panel and a special thermostat that had to plug into an AC outlet
at the furnace/Air Conditioning unit. By logging in to the power
supplier's web site, I could adjust my thermostat and monitor my
demand readings.

At the same time, I also used a phone line networking system which
allowed me to use standard phone lines in one room to get an IP
address from the 2-Wire Home Phone Networking bridge that was
using one port on the Linksys router and running its own DHCP
server for the other PC's in the house.